Sign up for my email newsletter

Get new updates, usually once a week – it features long-form essays on what’s going on here in Silicon Valley.

I’ve written 550+ essays which have been featured and quoted in The New York Times, Fortune, Wired, and WSJ. The topics range from mobile product design to fundraising to “growth hacking.”

Thanks for reading. -Andrew

Close

@andrewchen

Subscribe · Featured · Recent essays

Stanford CS major seeks sales/marketing monkey

Silicon Valley is mean to MBAs
This tumblr, Whartonite Seeks Code Monkey, made me laugh.

It’s full of emails from clueless Wharton MBAs which read like this:

LOL right?

This also reminds me of the famous quote on valuing startups:

Add $1,000,000 in value for every engineer.
Subtract $500,000 in value for every MBA.

Here’s why it’s hard: The nerd perspective is, they don’t need you
Much of the reason why it’s insanely hard to find a really good technical cofounder is that the best ones really don’t need you. Or at least they don’t think they need you.

Because there’s an illustrious track record of engineering-founded companies succeeding, spanning from HP to Facebook, there’s a lot of datapoints that say that a 20-yo Stanford computer science major can do it himself, or at least with his other CS roommates. Similarly, the very best alums out of places like Facebook and Google have lots of access to capital, advice, and people- these are all recipes for making you (the biz founder) completely irrelevant.

So I think the right point of view is just to accept that the amount of leverage strong technical folks in the Valley have is just the facts, and you’ll have to work around that.

Remember this:

They are not the code monkey. You are the biz monkey.

That’s just how it is.

Picking the right idea
One key way to mitigate this is to pick the right idea that doesn’t require ridiculous amounts of technical expertise upfront. You can build a great company that’s extremely sales driven rather than product driven in categories like:

  • Enterprise sales
  • Groupon for X
  • Blog/media sites aka Content farms
  • Marketplaces
  • Ad network

I’m sure I’m leaving many other categories out.

For anything above, a lot of the work is in sales, and the actual technical infrastructure doesn’t require a strong engineer to pull together, at least initially. You’ll need them to scale it, but at that point hopefully you’ll have more money and more momentum.

For the kinds of ideas above, they might be easy enough to build in the short-run that you can get a different kind of coder at first. You can get someone who can code up a site and potentially have some visual design background, rather than an “engineer” who has theoretical understanding of computer science, understands performance tradeoffs, etc. There are more of the former than that latter in the world.

At the same time, note that many of the ideas above may not be particularly exciting to an engineer that wants to play with technologies. So perhaps something that combines the two can help – for example, MySQL is a great example of a cool technology (at the time) but clearly couldn’t have been turned into a company without a lot of business types running around.

Understanding and communicating what you really bring to the table
If you read through the Wharonite Seeks Code Monkey blog,  you can see that obviously they are mostly noobs and don’t know what exactly is the valuable part of what a biz cofounder can do versus not. This is true of many startups, both biz and geek-led, but there is huge overvaluation of the initial idea.

What do geeks really need help with? It’s very simple- there’s a class of purely business-related stuff that adds value:

  • selling stuff and making money
  • getting partnerships and marketing/distribution of the product
  • funding the company
  • scalable marketing/monetization strategy (ad arb / viral / freemium / etc.)
  • team recruiting, particularly of other engineers and disciplines (not other MBAs please)

If you are an expert at any of the above and can show it, then there’s a lot more value. Very few business folks, particularly newly-minted MBAs (with the exception of Stanford folks) or industry-switchers can really deliver on these though, which is why they’re not bringing much to the table.

Then there’s a class of things that are much more product-oriented, and while it overlaps with the skillset of some engineers, if you have great skills in any of the following, they are clearly valuable too:

  • design, especially visual design
  • UI/frontend skills – HTML/CSS/JS – even if mediocre!
  • copywriting within the product for help text, marketing, etc
  • user research and customer development
  • usability testing

Again, it all depends on what you’re really good at and what the particular product needs – enterprise might require less of the above, but a more solid initial product might help.

Worst comes to worst, write it yourself
And finally, there’s a nice track record of technical-enough people writing the first version of something and then having great engineers build it up later. Foursquare was like that, for example. More recently, David Binetti of Votizen wrote the first version of his product. I have immense respect for folks who do this, because it means they’re making “good-enough” progress without waiting for exactly the right technical partner to show up.

Any other thoughts or tips to share?
If you guys have other thoughts on ideas or thoughts on this topic, especially from those who are on the technical side, of how to attract and partner with engineers, write me a note in the comments! I’ll update this post as we go.

Like this post?
Get new updates via newsletter..

  • http://paulstamatiou.com Paul Stamatiou

    Haha I love that “subtract $500k for every MBA…” quote!

  • http://twitter.com/brendanbaker brendanbaker

    New MBA here, working in tech. Yep. You’ve nailed most of it. I thought this post would degenerate into more banal MBA-bashing. However, the second half was among the best descriptions of how an business-side team member can add value, that I’ve seen in awhile.

    In reviewing pitches, I think I’m seeing a trend: a group of MBA technical founders (>3-4) act like traditional MBAs, with all that reputation and hubris. Often single MBAs who seek out varied co-founders are a little more humble, and recognize that their skills need to adapt to suit the startup context. I’d bet more often on them.

    Finally, a second on business types who strive to gain technical skills. Vinicius of Yipit applies as well, and even started a great blog series on becoming a technical co-founder.

    B

  • http://andrewchen.typepad.com Andrew Chen

    yes, I am not meaning to MBA-bash, but rather to discuss the realities of what it’s like to find your technical complement and what you really need to offer. Thanks for commenting!

  • http://andrewchen.typepad.com Andrew Chen

    I believe Guy Kawasaki, formerly of Apple, came up with it. He has an MBA ;-)

  • http://twitter.com/drupeek Andrew Peek

    From a business background who has served time learning tech stacks and how to see code from a product lens…

    For the MBAs:

    How To Find A Technical Co-Founder – http://www.jetcooper.com/blog/how-to-find-a-technical-co-founder/

    or, arguably more important:

    What Does A Business Co-Founder Do? – http://www.jetcooper.com/blog/what-does-a-business-co-founder-do/

  • http://andrewchen.typepad.com Andrew Chen

    great links! Thanks for adding them.

  • http://www.charlescarter.me ccarter

    Andrew – I found your post via hacker news but also follow you on twitter.

    Disclosure: I would pigeon hole myself as a strategist, have little programming experience and am an aspiring founder of a startup in the tech space.

    I would like to highlight what I see as “the current tug of war of ego” between programmers and business orientated people. It exists. I read about it far too often in blogs and in my twitter stream from many people. It needs to stop.

    If the ‘I am better, a more valuable asset ‘ etc. mentality exists within a startup, the company will either fail or just be no fun – nobody wants either of those options.

    My suggestion: everybody drop the ego. Work together as a team and understand you are nothing without each other.

    Shouldn’t be too hard.

  • http://twitter.com/rachnaspace rachnaspace

    Came across this post on Alexis’ blog -

    >>the nerd perspective is, they don’t need you>>
    Couldn’t agree more. Being a biz monkey – I like the way you call it ;) – it was quite a challenge finding a tech co-founder, and mainly because of this reason you stated. I now have a tech co-founder, and we’ve been working well for the last few months, getting our alpha out in a couple of days. 2 things helped -
    1. Looking outside silicon valley. The geeks in the valley are not only savvy technically, but also carry a sharp business sense, so yeah why would they need a business co-founder so early on. However, this is not the case outside the valley – lots of brilliant geeks just like to code and build products and don’t so much enjoy getting users, interacting with users.. and the other business stuff.
    2. Share the vision, the dream – valuable piece of advice given by a Prof from UC Berkeley. He once told me that really smart people don’t need to be sold on the excitement of a startup, or equity, or a cool idea… just share your vision – the dream, and if that excites them, you don’t need to do anything else.

    I must also add that before I found the tech co-founder, I had a basic prototype of my app ready – I spoke to a number of engineers (mostly friends), professors, students to understand how to go about implementing my idea technically.. then I read about it, figured out how APIs work, the limitations, etc… then got a student to help me with the prototype – roped in an architect friend to advise/guide me.

    Good luck to fellow biz monkeys! there’s hope :)

  • Anonymous

    Good stuff mate! Your post is right on the bulls eye. Your quote is very relevant, in fact a 100K$ investment banking or consulting job stole away your chances to make a million that year and perhaps multiples for a long time thereafter.

    The hack your own itch part is also good, coz … even if you struggle with the coding part initially you grow as a tech-biz planner …

  • http://twitter.com/kienan Kienan Clute

    Good shit, Andrew. Keep it up.

  • http://incometaxcalculatorblog.com/ income tax calculator

    Subtract $500k….. hilarious

  • http://insights.chitika.com Daniel Ruby

    Good stuff… perhaps I should take my “good-enough” tech skills (enough to work at the Geek Squad, not enough to do any real techie work) and build my evil Internet sensation myself. BTW, the company I work for now has two founders – the CTO and CEO – and both were originally engineers. IMO (as an MBA) the business side is easier to grasp as an engineer than the reverse.

  • http://twitter.com/gautambay Gautam Tambay

    Nice post! Love the “write it yourself” advice. Another guy who did that was Marc Cenedella, founder of theladders.com, who was a guest lecturer in one of my classes at Wharton. He had no technical background (HBS MBA, worked in Private Equity), but decided to write the first version of the site himself (admittedly a marketplace, hence technologically simple), rather than go around seeking a code monkey! The company’s done pretty darn well.

  • Anonymous

    I did both — Stanford MBA and Caltech engineering — and spent years working each side of that fence. They are both hard to do well. I actually think the MBA side is harder, but also easier to fake for short periods, so it attracts carpetbaggers and gets a bad rap.

    But this blog is about seed stage, so you really only need the programmer. Take away the MBA and your pitch might look rocky; take away the code and design, and there is nothing to pitch.

    At seed stage, strategy is just not that hard. One afternoon looking at the canonical Michael Porter diagram, plus a little study of network effects, and you are good all the way to your B round. Beyond those basics, your time is better spent identifying and building something people really want. The MBA is no help there.

  • http://twitter.com/samilinnanvuo Sami Linnanvuo

    Ad networks? I think that’s just another sector getting dominated by techies, see http://www.cogmap.com/blog/2010/03/30/whither-ad-networks/

  • http://twitter.com/MOARdrew Andrew L.

    I came across this post while researching reasons why coders can have disdain for business-oriented founders. (A “code monkey” whom I once interned with at a start-up recently made a snarky Facebook post about it.)

    I agree that MBAs can be incredibly arrogant at times. Although I hate to generalize, it has been a recurring theme lately.

    I also agree with the commenter that suggested both sides need to learn to get over the “I’m more important” syndrome. Considering that the most effective companies have a technical prowess and a strong marketing/sales/design orientation, a symbiotic relationship would be the best.

    Lastly, I’m a fan of business oriented founders learning enough on the technical side to put together a serviceable product that can be improved by high level engineers later. For what it’s worth, I’m a recent marketing graduate trying to teach myself enough to create a good product. :)

    -Andrew

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Craig-Micon/1706564 Craig Micon

    There’s a Quora question with a very similar theme to Andrew’s post if anyone’s interested in additional reading. (I added a link to Andrew’s entry to the Quora thread).

    http://www.quora.com/How-do-I-provide-value-to-my-startup-as-a-non-technical-cofounder

Want more? Featured essays and book recommendations